jakiro
Source: Information Justice
Musk believes
Break everything is the only way to do it.
They want you to focus only on destruction,
I don’t notice my life
A destroyed world.
Destruction is everywhere,
It’s hard to figure out what’s been destroyed.
You won’t feel angry.
Only a sense of powerlessness.
At first, Musk(Elon Musk)Ministry of Government Efficiency(DOGE)The responsibilities are very narrow.President Trump’sExecutive Ordersay,DOGEAim to“Modernize federal technology and software to maximize government efficiency and productivity”.
But in the past few weeksMusk obviously played a much bigger role.He gained access to computer systems, dissolved the USAID and on his own platformXThe government launched a fierce attack, accusing government agencies of committing various conspiracies.
I watched it all happening and wondered how Musk evolved: how he went from being a traditional Obama-era liberal who focused on climate change and wanted to go to Mars to a right-wing conspiracy theory spreader, an active German extremeThe people who assisted the election and dismantled the US federal government?
What led to Musk’s transformation?He has considerable control over the government, so what practical changes will he bring to the government?
To discuss these issues, I invited Kara·Kara Swisher.Kara is one of the best tech journalists today. She has been following Musk and other tech CEOs who have become important politicians for many years.
——Ezra·Klein
This articleAccording to the New York TimesGuest “T”He Ezra Klein Show》’s text record of broadcast content on February 7, 2025, and the translator has deleted it.In this episode, Ezra Klein and famous journalist Kara·Swisher(Kara Swisser)Discussed the purpose of Elon Musk’s involvement in the federal government and what exactly made him so extreme.Kara·Swisher is a famous American tech journalist, columnist and podcast host. She has long reported on technology giants such as Apple, Google, Facebook, and Twitter. She is good at revealing industry insiders and executive dynamics. She often makes sharp marks to technology company executives in interviews.The problem is direct, sharp and merciless, and is called “the fearless critic of Silicon Valley.”
What exactly Musk wantsWhy did he become so extreme
Ezra·Klein[Ezra]:Kara·Swisher, welcome back to the show.How would you describe the role Musk played in the federal government in the first few weeks of Trump’s second term?
Kara Swishe [hereinafter referred to as Kara]:I’m more wording than The New York Times.The TimesthisLike: This person is so interesting, isn’t it?And I think he isActingA one-man show, for demolitionThe big iron ball, really.Trump took advantage of his.
He can be described in many metaphors.He can be said to be a garbage dump dog[Note], always rush to the front and destroy.
[Note]The English is junkyard dog.Literally means a ferocious dog guarding a scrap yard or garbage dump, extended to an animal or human with particularly vicious and aggressive behavior.
He does the same thing as he does with his own company.He does the same move every time.Now he amplifies those actions and uses them to the federal government.
Musk
Ezra:Please tell me what actions are they and what is his script?
Kara:Over the years, his dramas have emerged one after another, which is his usual style.He can perform drama masters in a moving way.
He was once worried about Tesla’s fate and even slept on the floor at Tesla.He seemed to cry when he was interviewed by the New York Times.In one of our chats——This is the outside lens part——He said: If Tesla can’t hold on, humans will be done.
I think it’s a bit exaggerated.I thought to myself: Wow, this man in his forties thought he was the center of the universe.He is always a drama artist.
Video games have a great influence on him.Some people describe him as the number one player, others areNPC-Non-player.He must be a hero, or the most important character.Sometimes it is indeed the case, sometimes it is planned by him——He is not actually the founder, but he plays the role of founder, or tampers with history, or uses PR to shape himself into a founder.
He knows very well what is “Hero’s Journey”, and the interests of things must be extremely important.——“If it fails, we’re done.”He likes to exaggerate the problem.Most companies have problems, but he will say: Everything here is a disaster, and I am here to save it.Either say: Everything is terrible, everyone before was criminals, evil, or, “pedophile” – a word he particularly likes to use.
existA tweetIn the middle, he said that former Twitter trust and security chief Joel Ross (Yoel Roth)for“demon”.He also said I was “full of rage” – it was too exaggerated and ridiculous.I’m not full of hatred.
Ezra:This is very Trump.
Kara:Yes, that’s it.But I think he is serious.Trump sometimes just to show off——Like a reality show.
“In the upper class,
Illegal is legal.”
Ezra:One thing Musk did in the federal government was to find the level of information and funds: the Ministry of Finance’s payment system, the Personnel Administration, where Musk placed his cronies.They used this method to install many people in the federal government.
Under the grand narrative told by Musk, what did he ask his subordinates to do when he took over?What is the theory of action?
Kara:The people around him are just executors.People in Silicon Valley are like that, with many minions.They all rely on him, usually younger.They would laugh at the jokes he told.
Once when he was interviewed at Code Conference, he told a very crappy joke, and several listeners around him laughed.I thought at the time: This is not funny at all.They looked at me as if I had three heads.
What did they do——Find outLevelsNot difficult.They enter in a non-conventional way——Not necessarily illegal——Although I suspect there may be a number of laws.But they don’t care whether it is illegal or not.
They entered forcefully, and the command: Show me the code; why don’t we go in?We went in.We have laws and federal bailiffs.Let’s see what they do to us.
What Musk often does is: say what he thinks, and then wait for others to sue, or wait for others to stop him.No one can stop him.
This is also very Trump: no one can stop it.
We abide by social rules and they directly ignore the rules.
Ezra:I want to focus on this kind of violation of the rules.What Musk and Trump understand in different ways is that in the upper class, it is legal to violate the law or violate the rules.Generally, there will be no problem, although someone will sue you.
However, prosecution requires legal basis and is handled through the court, which is very slow.
Therefore, it is only conventional to abide by laws and rules.If the law and rules are not followed, the action will be faster than the court’s trial.
They can fire everyone——Given the protection of civil servants, many may be illegal dismissals.But so what?They will file a lawsuit in half a year or four years and may receive some compensation.Companies often take this approach to those who organize trade unions.
But many restrictions on the administration do not actually work.Because by the time the law follows, you have achieved what you want to achieve.This is a very clever opinion.
Kara:Yes.If caught, he is willing to pay.He is willing to appeal legally.Many people think: I don’t want to fight with this person, he has unlimited money.
Journalists must think twice.This is how media companies reconciliation: in Harris(Kamala Harris)During the event,CBSNothing was done wrong, but they paid for settlement;MetaObviously, he did nothing wrong with Trump, but he still paid.Either compromise to calm things down or compromise by exhaustion.He can destroy anyone.
If you mess it up, if you don’t pay the bill, you can probably escape because you won’t be caught.In terms of business, he is:90Rocket exploded because91It will succeed.He has this attitude towards everything.
Ezra:To be fair, he made some good Rockets.
Kara:really.But who else can do this?NASAYou can’t let the Rockets explode, because if one of their rockets explodes, it’s over.It is a real advantage to be able to continue doing it after the Rockets explode.
Ezra:This involves deeper issues.What are his various strategies and strategies for?
He tried to build a Rocket that worked in some way and he succeeded.Frankly, I think the world has been better because of his efforts.Tesla has experienced many failures, but it has indeed built better electric cars and has promoted the transformation of electric cars.
But what does he want now?What vision does he want to realize now with such great power in the government?
Kara:Not money.I don’t want to say that, but for many of them money is not that important.certainly,Some people do like money very much, but what is more important is the power and decision-making power brought by money.
His initial idea was: I have good ideas, I want to put them into practice.Now it is: I have ideas for every topic, so what I say is what.
This is a kingly attitude: go to his parliament, go to his court.Basically, there should be a king——A CEO with unlimited power.
To some extent, he had strange ideas about the limited life.He wants to be a legend.Back to the video game, I think he wants the glory in the game, and he has those pictures in his mind.It’s not about making excuses for him, but about trying to explain——He sees himself as a hero on the journey.
By the way,He is not a hero.
He is not an adult
Ezra:I agree that he wanted to fight for power to realize his ideas, but I don’t understand why he became so radical.Musk’s philosophy seems to have changed.
Co-founded with himPayPalPeter·Tiyou(Peter Thiel)[Note]Always very right-leaning.You can see what he wrote when he was at Stanford.
But Musk was a standard Obama-era liberal.His series of companies are trying to solve problems that liberals valued in the Obama era.These companies survived by Obama’s policies——From government contracts to electric vehicle subsidies, to loan guarantees.
Tesla survives with Obama’s loan guarantee.Although Musk2017He joined Trump’s advisory board in 2018, but after Trump withdrew from the Paris Climate Agreement, he withdrew from the committee.
Therefore, this person operates a public-private partnership and has been working with the government to work on issues such as climate change.However, in just a few years, he became very right-leaning.
[Note]Peter Peter Thiel is the co-founder of PayPal, an early Facebook investor, and a Palantir founder. He is also an important thought leader and funder of the American right.He supports Trump, sponsors conservative politicians such as J.D. Vance, and promotes the deregulation of free markets, anti-identity politics and the technology industry.His “From 0 to 1” has a far-reaching influence and emphasizes that monopoly is the way to success.As a bridge between Silicon Valley and right-wing politics, he not only shaped the modern technological landscape, but also deeply influenced the policy and discourse system of American conservatives.
Kara:you’re right.During Obama’s administration, he supported Obama.When he first joined Trump, he would also send me text messages like this:They are anti-gay, I want to stop them; I want to change Trump’s mind, only I can do it.
He was not against Trump at that time, but he was definitely not pro-Trump.Although he agrees with Trump’s thief thinking.
During the COVID-19 pandemic, he changed.He wasn’t so rebellious before.I mean, he is arrogant and is typical of technical work, but what he does is fun.During the epidemic, I noticed that he had changed, became obviously frustrated, and obviously became more dramatic.
If you think your company is crucial to the future of humanity and California shuts down due to the pandemic, you will fall into that emotion.He became unreasonable.In an interview with him, he said there were only a few thousand people——I don’t remember the exact number——Will die of COVID, saying he has read all the research reports, so he knows, and I don’t.
He never likes unions, governments, or regulations, people like him never like.This idea has become more solidified during the epidemic.
I think his trans daughter’s problem has had a profound impact on him.I noticed that many tech people with trans children suddenly became——It’s basically like losing your mind.
The Wall Street Journal reported that he was taking ketamine[Note]Wait for medicine.I think that changed him, even though they all beat the medicine——
[Note]chlorineAmine is aIsolated anesthetic drugs,existUSAbelongThe third category of controlled drugs,ToolhavePsychological activity, will be abused aspoison.
Ezra:I know a lot of people use ketamine, but they don’t become so right-leaning politically.
Kara:And staying up late.He had a strange schedule and did not sleep at three in the morning.He has obsessive-compulsive disorder.We may all be some, but he is even more serious.
Biden did not invite him to the electric car summit that year and was cold to him.He was very angry, very angry.
We talked a lot and he also sent me text messages.That summit was held by Biden because Musk could not be invited because of the union issue.Musk was very anti-union, so he was not invited.He was very angry, very angry, and suffered trauma.
I’ll give it to Biden’s Steve·Richty called.I said:“Oh my God, you made a mistake.You should go and hug that person.He was really angry.”
Steve said:“Oh, it’s the union.He should understand.He is an adult.”
I thought to myself, no,He is not an adult.
Ezra:Biden’s people pay great attention to interpersonal relationships, but they don’t realize how this neglect will harm a person who is so arrogant.——They made political mistakes in what they were good at.
Kara:Musk’s reaction to contempt was strange.That hit him a big blow.Biden’s people stimulated him.
I think he should be praised for Tesla, so why not give it to him?Despite the union, I still don’t understand.
Addiction and madness
Ezra:You didn’t mention one factor, that is Twitter.The Wall Street Journal published an article a few years ago, tracking the number of his tweets year by year.2012Year is here2014In 2018, his tweets surged.arrive2018In 2018, he began to make full efforts.
The way he uses Twitter has also changed a lot.He obviously receivedTwitterOn the influence of some radical right-wing subcultures.
I don’t know if it’s a chicken or an egg first, but he didn’t become an average Republican.In some ways, he didn’t even become a normal oneMAGARepublican.He didn’t become Bannon(Steve Bannon)That kind of people.He’s stuckTwitterThe world of the Anonymous.
Kara:OK, let’s start with jokes.He likes darkmemes.
Ezra:You know him better than me, but I have come into contact with him several times——That was a few years ago, before he became who he is now——I will tell people: He is the smartest in the world15A year old boy.
Kara:This statement is very good.
Ezra:He is addicted tomemes.andmemesIt is the entrance to the dark right wing on that platform.
Kara:Yes, I have personal experience because my son likes darkmemes.He often sends me that kind of thing, and you will soon get stuck in it.
I think this isTwitterWhat attracted him.Then it develops to a darker place.Obviously, he is an addictive person.Whether it’s work or——”Hardcore”It is one of his favorite words.
He likes addictive things.So, his Twitter usage is crazy.He is a crazy person.Again, this is not an excuse, but an attempt to explain.He’s a manic person——And very rebellious.
He always forwards some vulgarmemes,He likes that world.Babylon Bee, a right-wing Christian humor account, closed by Twitter for transgender issues(They presented a trans Biden official with Person of the Year Award).That humor is stupid and vulgar, but why close it?I agree with him.But they turned it off, which made him angry.
Ezra:One fact is that as far as people of his class are concerned, he is good at social media.He uses social media like a young man, not like Obama.
Kara:I don’t think he is good at social media, and my kid always makes painful faces when he sees him.
Ezra:All right.But there are official voices on social media.——Zuckerberg was that voice before he became Musk’s online imitator, or Obama/Bill·Gates’s kind.
Musk’s voice is different.He often responds to fans’ small accounts.He built an unprecedented force of attention.He likes to be followed.He will use this attention to drive it.memesThe price of the coin rose.He knows how to turn attention into wealth——This is something that no one else has.
What sets him apart from those who look similar to him and gives him the temperament that is suitable for doing this?
Kara:His maniaCharacter, right?A manic addictive trait.And he has a sense of humor, and while that kind of humor isn’t my tea, it can be quite charming.He said during his “Saturday Night Live”:
[Archived Musk Audio] I know I sometimes say or post weird things, but that’s how my brain works.For anyone I offended, I just want to say that I reshaped the electric car and will send people to Mars with a rocket ship.Do you think I would be a calm, normal guy?
He is so clumsy and cute.
Ezra:So many tech journalists you know, they are really surprised by this——
Kara:Indeed, I often hear people say: You made him——Don’t you know——
Well, I didn’t know how he treated his children at that time.
Ezra:It’s not you who made him.Tesla’s success is because the car itself is of excellent quality.
Kara:I reported him as an automaker.
Go back to where he is good at: likeAOC(Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez)And Trump, they are both good at shaping their own online image.And it feels real, it feels their own voice.
People like celebrities to react to them, and that can cause a sensation.So you will get a lot of worshippers: Oh God, Musk has replied to me!
He also gained satisfaction from it.He initially combines humor with insights into interesting things, but quickly involves something he doesn’t understand at all.He is self-righteous and likes to speak nonsense about things he doesn’t understand.
Ezra:I remember Musk was on stage a few years ago at the Code Conference.You talked about how he believed in the simulation hypothesis, which argued that any civilization that is advanced enough would begin to simulate the world.
The number of simulated worlds will be greater than the number of base reality.Therefore, based on simple arithmetic, we are more likely to live in a simulated world than in the real world.Musk said he agrees with this view and believes that the possibility of us living in basic reality is very low.
Kara:He was fascinated by this-
Ezra:This is exactly what I want to say.I think his mind is always attracted by unusual ideas.
What most people believe may be wrong——What you can and cannot do, what is real and what is fake.And he has been proven to be correct many times, and it has been proven in a heavy and far-reaching way.
Now he is the richest man in the world and has attracted the attention of the whole world.This will change people’s psychology.
Not only is he interested in unusual ideas, but, according to meTwitterAfter observing him, he became increasingly conspiracy theories.I’m curious how you understand this side of him.
Kara:New York Times reporter Ruth(Kevin Roose)This has been well reported.When you enter that bottomless pit, you find that everyone is influenced by social media.
The thinking of technicians is like this: this is possible; we can land on the moon.To do difficult things, you must have this kind of qualities and start with this personality.So, question everything: Why do you do this?
This is a personality I like.But the problem is that they also question everything on topics such as Ukraine and vaccines.
He is very interested in ideas such as simulation.For example: Why can’t we live on Mars?
The starting point is good, but on social media——As Ruth pointed out——Usually it will quickly fall into the circle of conspiracy theories.
EscheHerepull:And he was trapped in a special conspiracy theory.Someone tweeted, calling Jewish“Promoting a dialectical hatred: hating white people, but hoping that people will stop targeting them.”MuskReply:“You told the truth.”
Kara:2024Year7On the eve of his outscoring Trump, he accused the Democratic Party“Introduce as many illegal voters as possible”.
Ezra:He is somewhat different from many people who seem to have similar political positions.I think he really believes in the theory of big replacement[Note].
Kara:Yes.So are many people in Silicon Valley.Let me say: Not only him is like this, many people are being Curtis·Asian(Curtis Yarvin)[Note]That kindThings attract——If you think about it carefully, it is almost a religion.
[Note]Curtis Yarvin,American blogger foundedA name called “Dark Enlightenment” (Dark Enlightenment)anti-equality and anti-democratic system movement.
[Note]“Grand Replacement” is a conspiracy theory that the local population of Western countries is gradually being replaced by large numbers of immigrants, especially non-white immigrants.It was first proposed by French writer Renaud Camus.Despite the lack of scientific evidence, this theory has been widely criticized for being often exploited by far-right groups to promote racial anxiety and anti-immigration sentiment and incite hate crimes.The “Great Replacement” theory is part of the “white genocide” conspiracy theory with a wider scope and a longer history.The White Genocide Theory was proposed by American neo-Nazis David Lane in his 1995 book The White Genocide Manifesto, claiming that the governments of Western world countries intend to turn white people into “extinct species”.
There is an explanation:——Although I don’t want to say that——The poor little boy who didn’t get enough love when he was a child was looking for the meaning of life and love.This is not an excuse for him, because he has become a terrible person and he should be treated.
However, provide simple answers——“That’s why you are not happy, that’s why the world is like this”——Those right-wing conspiracy theories did touch some people’s itching.
This is a religion.It is their interpretation of the world.
Ezra:It’s also a kind of politics.Musk is South African.Peter·TiyouI spent most of my childhood in South Africa.David·Saxophone(David Sacks)Also South African.
I don’t know how much this explanation should account for, but it seems to make sense and is also interesting.Thiel, Musk and Sax are the three most important figures in Silicon Valley who support Trump, with unique political experiences, witnessing the white minority in South Africa from taking control of the country to becoming a frightened minority in the country.
Kara:Many people like this have this trait.The same goes for people in Silicon Valley.
This is related to Silicon Valley’s concept——Highly masculine, self-righteous——When combined, there will be: Why do those stupid people block our way?
South Africa, I don’t know.I don’t know if what happened there made those people.It can also be said to people from Russia or , or immigrants from India.They all bring the culture there.
For South Africa, you can choose from two options: Arthur·Fugard (Athol Fugard)[Note]or a way to miss the good times of the past.
[Note]Athol Fugard, a South African playwright, is known for his political and profound drama against apartheid and is considered South Africa’s greatest playwright.
They try to play men
Ezra:Musk acquiredTwitter, it was an unusual acquisition, he tried to renege, but eventually bought it.After taking over, he immediately made drastic reforms.
People talk about layoffs, talk about cutting waste or reducing costs.But looking back, it’s a CEO’s re-establishment of control over the over-empowered liberal-inclined workforce, both from reality and from a Silicon Valley cultural standpoint.Please talk about his impact on employee culture.
Kara:Interestingly, thoseCEOMany of them lack security.They want to be big shots, but they can’t do it, and they won’t do it because they are worried about what others say, so they just observe each other.
And this person, do it when he comes up.
In Silicon Valley, employees are the protagonists and they like to speak freely.Google created this ethos, which stipulated that employees could speak freely every Friday.What will happen if it turns out?
Ezra:FacebookMeetings are held every Friday, and Zuckerberg answers employees’ questions.They also developedSlackandTeamsInternal chat software allows employees to make comments at will.
Kara:They empower employees.Then there is aCEO, probably not Xiao Zha, said:“Now they are talking back.”I said:“What do you think?”
They were surprised by what the culture they created caused, and I was surprised by their surprise.
They make employees say whatever they want.The employee said what he wanted to say.Then they were annoyed by those words.
It’s hard for them to fight back because talent is valuable in Silicon Valley.So everyone must be themselves.This makes manyCEOAnnoyed.
Seeing Musk’s approach, Silicon ValleyCEOThey will say: He can do this, I can’t.I have to listen to diverse, fair and inclusive people——Although I hate those people.But he doesn’t have to, he can do whatever he wants.
When Musk did this and lay off employees, others wanted to follow suit.
Ezra:so,2020–2024During the epidemic period,#MeTooAnd when Black Lives Matter rises, the Silicon Valley CEO class becomes extreme.
I think this is withSlackandTeamsThe rise of software has a lot to do with it.The relationship between the boss and the employee has changed, and the dimension of its change has been underestimated.
It is indeed possible to see this in Zuckerberg’s personal transformation.Musk eventually became the embodiment of solving this problem.In my opinion, the reason why many CEOs are irritated is that they lose control of the company and they want to regain control.
This is exactly the same as Musk’s theory that has introduced the government now.He talks about cutting spending and reducing waste, but what he really wants to fight for Trump or himself is control.
Kara:That’s right.He should be: Let me get rid of those who hate me.
Again, this is a kingly style.The way they created a company was monarchical.Zuckerberg has absolute control, he will not be fired, he will always be there.
They like the kingly style, but things don’t work as they wish.Some reporters annoyed him, and some employees annoyed him.He must at least agree with diversity, otherwise he will be humiliated.In this regard, he does not have Musk’s determination.
They try to prove themselves in the masculine way they see them.That is the definition of a man.Many of them were not considered masculine when they were in high school.This is the nerd’s revenge.
For Xiao Zha, he is his necklace andTShirt——I think it looks stupid, but it doesn’t matter, it’s fine if he likes it——Or mix fighting, or jet skiing, or fitness to show muscles.Bezos(Jeff Bezos) The same is true: look at my muscles, look at my beautiful fiancée.They try to play the role of men.
This is sad.But it gave them great comfort.
Ezra:For me, Musk and Zuckerberg’s appointment to fight in the cage is a key signal that this class’s consciousness is changing.
There are some interesting topics in itself: Zuckerberg takes it very seriously and Musk keeps laughing at him.They didn’t fight——Zuckerberg will win if he plays, but Musk actually won because all he does is laugh at Zuckerberg.
Kara:They don’t like each other.
Ezra:In a largeCEOAt the Science and Technology Conference, Mark·Anderson(Marc Andreessen)[Note]When asked about the fight, he wasSubstackPrevious answerSay: I think they fight well because we lose the masculine virtues of the Greeks.
[Note]Marc Andreessen,NetscapeThe co-founder of the company is one of the most famous and influential venture capitalists in Silicon Valley and is regarded as the “unofficial godfather of Silicon Valley.”He once supported Obama, and in recent years he advocated “Techno-Optimism” because of his anti-identity politics, deregulatory stance and advocacy of AI and blockchain, which has had a great influence on the right-wing and conservative tech circles because of his anti-identity politics, deregulatory stance and advocacy of AI and blockchain.big.
In the right-wing intellectual subculture, those people feel that the world is becoming more and more feminine, and the masculine virtues——Invasion, combat, conflict, boldness, adventure, decisive decision-making——Have been weakened.
So it needs to be corrected.Modernity is deviating from the track because we become feminine and weak.These venture capitalists and tech founders want to guide us back on track.
Kara:They didn’t like women at first.So it’s not surprising.
Ezra:Interestingly, they also have to put a rational cloak on this statement.
Kara:True——There is no female among them.II wrote an article, the title is “FacebookThe men in management and(No)“Female”, Xiao Zha was very unhappy because of this.I thought to myself: I only posted photos of your management.You hired them.
They are very obsessed with what a man is and how to act.
What’s interesting is——Especially Mark·Anderson: If he could jog10I’ll be surprised if I’m feet.What else to talk about masculinity——Give me aside.
When Zuckerberg said this, I thought: I can knock him to the ground in five seconds.Now he is going to challenge me to fight.As he pleases.
This is a concept about what a man is and is not, but they believe that it is.
Musk doesn’t play that role often, except for the ridiculous moves he’s doing.Those people often do that, Musk does not.But now they draw inspiration from his aggressiveness.This is very interesting.
Ezra:When they made a date, Zuckerberg seemed to position himself as Musk’s fighter.He hasThreadsMusk hasX.Zuckerberg imitates Musk, he isThreadsMusk’s way of participatingTwitteron how to participate.
Kara:Yes, Zuckerberg is number two.[laugh]He is really a number two.I like to say that.
Ezra:Musk has greatly reshaped the culture, sending at least one signal to take action for many people who are not ready to speak out about their feelings.He leads tech leaders toward Trump and now shows how to transform it into political power.
Peter·Tiyou——Is it a disaster or a blessing——He supported Trump very early, but he did not try to take power on his own.Thiel bets and observes the returns of bets.But Musk is showing: You can be the one in power.Not only can you have the power of the CEO, but you can also be one of the most important people in the world——Can become a shadow president.
Kara:Zuckerberg avoided attention.He likes praise, but he doesn’t like the broken things that come with praise.That’s why he isn’t cruel enough.
Musk does have the courage.He is: I will do this no matter what.Whoever attacks me will be eaten as breakfast.If you have the ability, come and fight.
Ezra:Trump is the same, they have similar temperaments.To be so shameless, it takes an extremely unusual personality.
If you want to truly wield power, you must be willing to be hated.And most of us don’t want to be hated.Most CEOs are reluctant.andThey made a choice.In my opinion, this unrestrainedness is at the heart of their alliance.
Kara:However, they still care deep down.What Trump wants most is that the New York Times like him.You can feel it——That victim’s feeling——
Ezra:I don’t believe it anymore.Maybe he thought so before.But I don’t believe it anymore.
Kara:I think they all care about other people’s opinions, almost too much.In many ways, their anger was fueled.
There is a small corner deep in their hearts and they care a lot about other people’s opinions.And this made them more and more bold.That is their core motivation.
Ezra:That might be theirspower.But I think that at a certain stage, losing faith is true radicalism.Radicalism often abandons normal pluralism, that is, we are a community.At this time, a total war broke out.
Trump,And Musk(The latter is more rational),Think of this as a total war where control must be won.He’s in Logan(Rogan)The show said that if Trump does not win this time, there will be no more elections.
Musk devoted himself to this battle of human civilization.He obviously believes in some degree the theory of big substitution.He tried to help the far rightGerman Alternative PartyElection in Germany; he tried to get the British Labor Party down.
For a long time, Musk believed that humans eventually needed to become interstellar species, and other positions were outdated compared to this.
Kara:Look at the children he gave birth to.He shows himself by having many children, but rarely accompanying him, with only one child exception.He just cares about giving birth and not raising him.
Ezra:So, what is the goal now to motivate him?Do you really think it’s Star Travel?Or does he think these countries are losing their culture, and once they lose their culture, everything will be lost?
Kara:I think it does stem from the need for humans to leave this planet.Since I met him, this is his unchanging view——Civilization is destined to perish, so we need to leave the earth.
They believe deeply in their hearts that they are the best representative of human beings, that is, white people are superior human beings.
What he often says will reveal this.I forgot what he said, but the general idea is: we need more South Africans to come to the United States.
I’ve never heard him express anything I think is racist——I’ve heard other CEOs express it.His racial discrimination is another form, more about social engineering, and believes that excellent talents are being replaced.I think he does believe that statement.Of course, that’s also racism.
Ezra:As you said, the desire to become an interstellar traveler is still Musk’s motivation.He just believes that the virus of diversity, fairness and inclusion and awakening thinking is eroding civilization and genius.
Kara:Our journey to a foreign land was hindered because the second-hand man was in power——He talks about this topic often.
Once, he wasOn TwitterWhen talking about caesarean section, it is said: Caesarean section is better for the brain, because if you don’t have to pass through the vagina, the brain will be bigger.
I had a caesarean section, so I thought to myself: Sir, sit down for me, you don’t know what you are talking about.
No one paid much attention to his words, but I thought at the time: Oh, he thought he had to ensure childbirth——It’s almost an eugenics.He would actually make this point.
He has some theories about the human brain and development.Apparently, he was involvedNeuralinkproject[Note].He has always been interested in the fusion of machines and humans.
[Note]Musk’s experiment in implanting computer chips into the human brain.
They don’t care about you
Ezra:Back to the government topic——I’ll extend what you said——Achieving the long-term goals of mankind requires people like Musk to control the federal government; a political system that is not influenced by modern progressive ideas of equality and consensus, a slow, cumbersome, regulatory and unmasculine things that are allowed to take risks90The political system of rocket explosion risk.
He tried to functionally make the federal government effectively controlled by someone like him so that they could achieve those goals.
Kara:Yes, he thinks they are in the way.Some people say, Oh, they want to reform.I said:No, they want to burn it and start over.
This goes backPeter Till.If you take the time to read Peter Thiel, he said: democracy doesn’t work, we need to do something else.
A bit like“Action quickly and break the rules”—This is a software term.They don’t want to build, they just want to destroy.Only by destruction can it be built.This is subversion.All the words they use are about destruction.It’s not creative destruction, but: let’s erase everything and build the civilization we want.
They are best at using this technology utopianism(It’s actually technical dictatorship)To embellish this theory, as long as everyone listens to them, the world will become a better place.
Ezra:Let’s regard it as a government reform theory.
Kara:I know you like to say that.
I think democracy works quite well, but please go ahead.
Ezra:Musk once said that regulations should be cancelled by default.It does not exist by default, but cancels by default.If it turns out that a cancellation of a certain law is wrong, you can add it at any time.
Given that we have a long-term stable government and are seriously bureaucratic, the theory is——This is also a theory for Twitter——Turn off some things, cut them significantly, and solve problems if they occur.But it’s better to cut thoroughly and rebuild in a clean way, not to cut it out enough.
Normally, political reforms don’t go that far.Institutional reform is very difficult and will bring many problems.The San Francisco government is inefficient and the federal government needs improvement in many places.
So, is Muskism worth promoting?——He is doing what ordinary political reformers are reluctant to do and are willing to take risks for it.Is this the only way to create a less rigid federal bureaucracy?
Kara:No, I don’t think so.Not at all.It’s easy to push it back, isn’t it?Sacrifice is a must.They don’t care about this.
Many people will ask: How can they do this?How could they do this?I’ll say:They don’t care about you.They don’t think about you.You are nothing.
Musk was the first person to talk to me about artificial intelligence.What he cares about is the impact of artificial intelligence on humans.He and Altman(Sam Altman)Founded togetherOpenAI, at least for me, he was the first to bring this warning.
At first he said: Artificial intelligence will kill us.Just like the plot in Terminator, right?Artificial intelligence becomes self-aware, and then in turn bombard us, kill us, and the world begins again.So we have to stop it.
The next time he meets him, he comes up with a more complicated idea: they won’t kill us, they will treat us like pet cats.They like us here and will build everything to meet our needs.But we are not at risk.As long as they like pet cats, we won’t be able to do anything.They don’t take us seriously.
Later, when he saw him, he had this idea: artificial intelligence is like building a highway——Highways across the United States.Humans are ants. When we build roads, we will destroy the ant nest without hesitation.We didn’t know there was an ant nest there, just doing what we were going to do.
He is expressing his style of doing things: those things are like anthills, don’t think about them because we never think about them.This is an interesting progress: he cared about the fate of mankind at first, but he did not.
Ezra:I like the progression of this metaphor.
An analogy of what Musk did is Twitter, who entered Twitter and used a very similar script to control the company.But then Twitter crashed and its advertising business crashed.It’s still a bad platform, worse than ever.It has something that hasn’t been before, likeGrok, but its search is still not good.
Seeing Trump outsource everything to Musk, I wonder if he had considered the risks he had to take.In the next few years, all the bad things that may happen under the federal government’s responsibilities will be counted on him.
The recent horrible plane crash occurred at the Federal Aviation Administration(FAA)This year through the mandatory retirement policy——MuskforceFAAOfficial resigned——Should they be blamed?
Bad things happen all the time.They slashed at the government with an axe——Force resignation, reassignment of jobs, and dismissal of talented staff——Then any mistakes should be blamed on them.
Kara:But they won’t admit it.They would say: It was the former government that left a mess and we were cleaning it up.
Do you think they care about the consequences?
Ezra:They only care about power.
Kara:They don’t care about the consequences of destruction.They don’t care, nor do they think about the consequences.
Compared with the federal government,TwitterSmaller scale.The only way he attracts advertisers is to threaten them and file many lawsuits.Of course, those advertisers will go back and will surrender to him——
Ezra:Now he has supreme power, right?Give up to him is to buy and eliminate disasters——
Kara:Tesla is no better than in the past, and their cars are not innovative.Tesla’s stock price may rise, but sales are falling because cars are not as good as before.
He doesn’t care about the actual consequences.They all care about destruction and then claim that they will make better.
But I don’t know what they are going to do better.Ask them, they will just say everything is terrible and must be cleared.They will never tell you what they use for substitution, because they have no theory of construction, only theory of destruction.
Just like Trump claims on the issue of water: We must let the water flow!
What he did was a disaster.He wasted California’s water resources – opening the reservoir for no reason to extinguish the fire.
Then many people said, you did a good job!
Ezra:Remind of controlling Twitter.After Musk acquired Twitter, Twitter’s business plummeted.Apparently, he440Buy it is expensive for billions of dollars.A year and a half ago, I would say: He lost a lot.
But in the end he turned Twitter into his personal channel.He turned all the attention and influence of Twitter into something he could control.
The value of power he gained from it is far more than440$100 million.Otherwise, Musk would not be able to play such a role in domestic and international politics.
Kara:This is the best investment he has made——Except that2.8In addition to helping Trump run for the election.
When he bought Twitter, we all thought: What’s going on?Why did he pay so much money?What an idiot.
Ezra:He himself thought so.He tried to withdraw, feeling the price was overvalued.
Kara:He wanted to quit, feeling stupid.He didn’t expect what he could do with it.He didn’t know he owned a cannon.
mark·Cuban(Mark Cuban)[Note]Expected it, and called me and said: Maybe he doesn’t know what he is doing——If Tesla orStarlinkThe person in charge appears in international situations and he receives the same treatment as a supervisor at General Motors or Lockheed.But if he appears as a Twitter owner, from an influence perspective, he will have huge power worldwide.
[Note]Mark Cuban,American entrepreneur, tech investor and media host, was once the owner of the Dallas Mavericks.
He said:That is not only working in the United States.Still leading the world.
Mark is 100% correct.Musk bought it and became the Twitter boss.He also has Tesla.No one can do this.Maybe, long ago, Murdoch(Rupert Murdoch)[Note]Have done it.But Musk is bigger, better, stronger and more influential.Murdoch would never think of sitting with Trump and cutting the U.S. government.
[Note]Rupert Murdoch,Australian-born American media giant has hundreds of media outlets around the world including the Sun, Times, Wall Street Journal, Fox News, etc. Forbes Wealth ranks No. 1 in the United States31.
Ezra:Murdoch doesn’t want to be the protagonist of his platform.
Kara:But Musk is a bit like Murdoch now.It’s just a Murdoch who likes to be fooled.
Ezra:This analogy is very appropriate.
Regarding the government, he may not know what he wants to build, but Twitter’s experience tells him: If you destroy it, you can control it and make it your tool.
He hopes everyone knows that it was him who did it.adviseEmails for resignation from federal employees are sent toTwitterThe exact same title for the employee’s email is too obvious.
He wants everyone to know that he did it.He wants to be the protagonist of the whole thing——Like you said at the beginning.
Kara:Thank God you said that, because the media are saying: It’s so fun to use the same title.
And I said: He wants you to know.
Ezra:Just like he signed the autograph.
Kara:He hopes others know everything he does.Because, he was extremely eager to pay attention, otherwise how could he have a call in the middle of the nightCarterPeople chatting?Why?
Because there is a hole in his heart that can never be filled.It was a deep well without bottoms.I don’t want to analyze because I’m not a psychologist, but my goodness, he does have a huge hole.
There is no solution for both Musk and Trump, which is obvious.They will only say what the problem is, but they have no vision.
Apart from“Don’t get in the way, let me do what I want”What are their visions?
Ezra:There is a magic novel“Sin Devourer”concept.That kind of thing will devour sin and be purified.That’s a victim.
Cardpull:A bit like Jesus.
Ezra:It’s a bit similar to some extent.The war between Trump and his people around him is difficult.Assuming things get worse, Musk has to take a lot of responsibility, which makes him a very useful victim.Those cautious and unspeakable people around Musk——Susie·Wiles(Susie Wileses)[Note], Ras·Worth(Russ Voughts)[Note]None of those people are opposed to them——
[Note]Susie Wileses,White House Chief of Staff, Trump’s campaign director
[Note]Russ Voughts,American Christian nationalist, author of the 2025 plan, Trump took office as director of the Office of Management and Budget for the second term.
Kara:They let out a wind and said: We can’t control him.
Ezra:Yes, there are many such statements.
Once he becomes a negative asset, he can get rid of him.Trump will say: Musk is out of control, it’s not what we did.Someone is preparing to turn the blame.
Kara:There are always people like this in Trump’s life, Cohen(Michael Cohen)[Note]that is.Now he has the most powerful one.There are always people in his life who are willing to go through fire and water for his boss——Apparently he likes to be called the boss.
[Note]Michael Cohen,Former Trump’s personal lawyer, who “sets everything” for him, once said that he would like to block bullets for Trump.Later, he was sentenced to jail for helping Trump fraud and became a tainted witness.
Musk is such a heavyweight figure.Because he has money, he is protected more.
Ezra:How real do you think the relationship between them is?
Kara:Trump has only three emotions:A,B,orC.He has no complicated emotions.
I think they’ll get upset, I know he upset Trump.At the same time, Trump loves money, which is his core.
Trump thinks he is useful, and he is indeed useful to Trump.He is like a useful wild dog charging into battle.And he has a lot of money.If Trump wants to deal with senators, Musk will pay them to lose.Trump has an inexhaustible bank.
Trump also knows that he needs Musk to maintain power.He wouldn’t want Musk to leave, that would be very angry——He has the ability to retaliate.
So it may last for a while.What he does may become more and more outrageous.Trump will be infinitely inclusive: Oh, did he say racist things?I don’t care.
It may last for a long time.
Break everything
Ezra:I was surprised to see Trump trying to show Musk under his control.heexplain:“Without our approval, Elon could do nothing and would not do anything.We will approve it as appropriate, and we will not approve it if it is inappropriate.”
But news continues to spread within the government that he is actually not under any control.
I think both are true——Trump can refuse, but he doesn’t care.So, from a strange perspective,The danger for them is that Musk has super powers and is almost endlessly eager for risks, and the risks he takes may put everyone in trouble.
Kara:What risks will it be?Detonate a nuclear bomb?
Ezra:If the government is destroyed, things will get extremely bad.
How negative the government has to be held to believe that if so many outstanding government employees are driven away, the world will be safe and sound if a disaster occurs?Disasters happen frequently——The outbreak broke out in Trump’s first term.
Trump has a strange ability in his first term——He was responsible for managing the country, but he was able to appear out of his position.This allowed him to distinguish himself from government work he didn’t like in strange ways.His deep government theory worked.
But now he doesn’t have that excuse.If you take such open and tough measures to drive away so many people, you have to take all the risks.Things are broken, people look back and say: Elon, those people accept the buyout, they choose the fork you gave.
Kara:Your premise is that they care about damage.They don’t care, they won’t take responsibility.Have you heard of Zuckerberg taking responsibility for any issues?
Ezra:Trump has something to care about.As the market began to fluctuate, he quickly withdrew tariffs on Canada and Mexico.He also doesn’t want to lose the midterm elections in a scattered way.
Kara:Yes.One of the reasons why he had to keep Musk was money——To manipulate, to win the midterm election, a lot of money is needed.
But then again: they don’t care.The damage has been caused.Musk believes that breaking everything is the only way to do it.They want you to focus only on destruction and not notice that you live in a destroyed world.
Destruction is everywhere, and it is difficult to figure out what has been destroyed.People don’t feel angry, they only feel powerless.
Ezra:They often attempt to cause thisFeeling powerless.
I would like to ask a question about Silicon Valley’s technology culture.There is a trend now, and people are galloping towards technological totalitarianism.
This trend has developed very rapidly and violently among the cultural leaders of Silicon Valley., those people have the largest social media accounts, and they all appear at Trump’s inauguration.
Have you seen the reverse power for that cultural trend?Are they all flowing in that direction?Are the employees moving in that direction?
What is reverse betting in front of this culture?It was very different ten years ago, when everyone supported Obama.
Kara:I can tell you that they don’t support Biden.
Ezra:They do not support Biden.but2016They hate Trump in 2019——Except Thiel.
So the change is very fast.This makes me wonder what it will be like in four years.Do you know who is the signal of change you are paying attention to?
Kara:There are a few people.Reed·Hoffman(Reid Hoffman)Just came on my podcast this week.I could feel his fear.heFunded Carroll(E. Jean Carroll)Litigation.He is a very cute person and is not biased——Almost to the point of paranoid.I don’t think he’s as radical as before.He must be thinking: What should I do?I’m in danger.
mark·Cuban is another category.He told me that he didn’t want to run for president.I think he has a chance, and he can say: Please, we shouldn’t have done this.
Not everyone has turned.Just a little loud, such as Musk and David·Saxophone and the like.
Not everyone agrees with the turn.Tim·Cook(Tim Cook)Didn’t sit in the front row.He doesn’t need to appear in that photo.
I never think Silicon Valley is liberal, I think they are utilitarian.They are tolerant on social issues, but they don’t really care.They didn’t think much about it, they just wanted to do their own business.
I don’t think they support Trump, but neither it’s Bob·Eagle(Bob Iger)[Note]Anyone else has to pay tribute.Now they have no choice.
[Note]Bob Iger, Disney’s firstCEO.
I don’t think Trump has many supporters, some of whom have loud voices, and others just shook their heads helplessly.
In this case, a counter-strength force is often formed.Those people are destroying everything, right?As you said, when disaster strikes, it will be a huge chaos.
They are taking sides in that direction because it is beneficial to them and shareholders.Whatever is beneficial to shareholders, they will do what they do——If Trump makes the stock market fall, they will immediately stand opposite Trump.
Because they have no real values, they don’t have them at all.Musk has more values than most of them, although that value is a bit distorted and deformed.So I think that no matter where the financial market goes, they will follow.This is my feeling.
Ezra:It is quite appropriate to end the interview at this point.Kara·Thank you very much, Swisher.
