jakiro
source:Bankless;Compiled: bitchain vision
Note: BitMine, the Ethereum treasury company, has been very popular on Wall Street in the past one or two months. Bankless interviewed BitMine Chairman Tom Lee on August 6, 2025.Tom Lee expressed his opinions on BitMine’s target of buying 5% ETH total supply, the reasons for the rise of Ethereum treasury, who is buying Ethereum treasury companies, the source of mNAV premium for crypto treasury companies, why the ETH price is still below $4,000, ETH price forecast at the end of 2025, and whether there is a bubble in the crypto treasury.
In terms of prices that people pay special attention to, Tom Lee believes that ETH is experiencing BTC. In 2017, Wall Street began to support ETH, and ETH will achieve step-by-step growth in the future like Bitcoin has done in the past five years.He also made a prediction about the price of ETH: in the short term, ETH should rebound to at least $4,000, and it is reasonable to reach $7,000 or $12,000 or $15,000 by the end of 2025.Bitchain Vision Compilation is for readers to refer to.
BitMine quickly buys 830,000 ETH
Bankless:In this podcast we invited Tom Lee, a legendary investor on Wall Street, and chairman of the newly established ETH treasury company BitMine.I really didn’t expect Tom Lee to start an ETH treasury company in 2025.BitMine now has 833,000 ETH, which is close to 1% of the total ETH supply.Bitmine is the world’s largest ETH treasury listed company.How do you feel?
Tom Lee:We acted very quickly because BitMine announced its start on June 30 and completed the transaction on July 8.We move at a very high speed to quickly obtain these ETHs in the 27 calendar days after the transaction is completed.
I think this is important because MicroStrategy has proven it has 30 times the return.MicroStrategy’s transformation occurred when MicroStrategy’s stock price was $13 in August 2020, while Bitcoin soared from $11,000 to $120,000 now, but its treasury strategy has brought another 20 times more returns on this basis.That’s why it gets a total of 30 times the return.
Ethereum is one of the largest macro transactions in the next decade.So we want to move quickly because we want to get as much ETH as possible at $3,500 or something before ETH grows step by step like Bitcoin has done in the past 5 years.
The rise of Ethereum Treasury companies
Bankless:Unlike MicroStrateg, when you launch BitMine and announce the implementation of the ETH treasury strategy, other ETH treasury companies are also following, such as Joseph Lubin’s Sharpink Gaming, which now has a large number of ETH treasury companies.Do you know there are other companies that follow closely?What’s going on with all this?Why does this seem to happen at the same time?
Tom Lee:Maybe the heroes have similar views.For a long time there were only Bitcoin Treasury companies, and then there were several Solana Treasury companies and Hype Treasury companies.Sharplink is the first Ethereum treasury company, which was announced in May.We were behind SharpLink, so we were behind.
I think Ethereum itself makes sense as a treasury.
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First, if you have a positive attitude towards ETH itself, then this is why the Ethereum treasury is executed.Especially compared to ETFs, treasury strategies can allow you to accumulate more ETH.
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Second, because of ETH’s pledge and proof of equity, these treasury companies are essentially infrastructure companies..In return, the benefits of native staking make them real businesses.For example, BitMine now holds more than $3 billion in ETH, which can earn more than 3% of native staking income, which is essentially net income.
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Third, it is important to create scarcity.BitMine’s story is a story of scarcity.Because we have a very clear strategy to try to acquire 5% ETH.We have a pure balance sheet.This is a big advantage.And the stock liquidity is very good.BitMine trades $1.6 billion a day, making it the 42nd place in liquidity in the U.S. stock market today.In fact, BitMine’s daily transaction volume is about the same as Uber.Although Bitmine has a market value of about $4 billion, Uber has a market value of $184 billion.
5% Ethereum total supply target
Bankless:Let’s talk about the 5% number.5% of the total ETH supply is about 6 million ETH.You moved very, very quickly, reaching 833,000 in about 4 weeks.Is BitMine serious about 5%?5% of Ethereum is approximately $20 billion based on its current market price.How to reach 5%?Do you have an execution plan to achieve that 5%?What kind of plan would you like?
Tom Lee:MicroStrategy currently accounts for 3.2% of BTC circulation supply.MicroStrategy wants to reach at least one million bitcoins, which is about 5%.Remember that once MicroStrategy has a million bitcoins, they have a sovereign put option.They are strategically important to the Bitcoin ecosystem.I mean, if the U.S. wants to create a strategic Bitcoin reserve, it may be difficult for the U.S. to buy a million bitcoins in the open market, because once they announce, sellers will decrease and Bitcoin may rise to one million dollars right away.MicroStrategy might be an easier way to get someone/country to get a million bitcoins.I call it a sovereign put option.
MicroStrategy has hit 3% in 5 years.So they have basically bought 16 cents worth of Bitcoin per share every day for the past 5 years.BitMine has increased by about 80 cents to $1 per share per day since its inception.It’s about 12 times faster than MicroStrategy.soWe are expected to reach 5% at 12 times the speed of MicroStrategy.But that makes sense, because everything BitMine does is 100% legal and compliant.Ethereum is a legal and compliant blockchain.Everything BitMine does is to keep every step of its operations in the United States.So it fits very well with the entities that Wall Street and the U.S. governments want to see a lot of pledges of ETH.It is also important that ETH itself will be where most of the Wall Street chain financialization takes place.
Someone made a point on Twitter that Wall Street bets on ETH just like gamers/game companies buying Nvidia.That’s exactly what Wall Street thinks,If Wall Street was to tokenize real-world assets from money markets to US dollars to stocks, they would want to own ETH itself, and they want the person who pledged ETH to be actually an entity that is really trying to drive the development of Ethereum’s goals.So I think BitMine plays an important role by staking ETH.
Bankless:Tom, if BitMine is currently 12 times faster than MicroStrategy, it will basically reach 5% in one to two years, which would be an amazing speed.Do you think there are similar sovereign put options in Ethereum like Bitcoin?That is, the U.S. government or other sovereign states come to you one day: “Hi BitMine, we noticed that you have a lot of ETH. We want to buy ETH for the U.S. Treasury and the Fed and put it on our balance sheet. We know you have a lot. Can we do OTC? “Do you think this is a possibility?
Tom Lee:What you just said is actually reasonable and reasonable.But BitMine’s goal is not to have a put option.If Wall Street, Genius Act, and SEC want to transfer the financial system to the chain, Ethereum is the largest blockchain.It also complies with US law and is a legally recognized blockchain.Ethereum can certainly be used by other countries.The United States obviously hopes to strengthen its position and dominance in Ethereum.
Remember, Ethereum’s narrative is more than this one.And AI, if you want to tokenize, whether it’s a robot or something, you want a blockchain that can be protected.So, the technology industry and Wall Street are integrating into Ethereum.Do Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan hope Ethereum will be held in millions of different wallets?Not that they try to centralize it, but they want to make sure the staking is done in a compliant way.Not everyone chooses to do this.That’s what we said from the beginning, BitMine’s balance sheet is super clean, without a peculiar capital structure, and everything we do is.We haven’t announced a staking solution for BitMine, but we’re taking the time to think about it because $3 billion ETH is a major decision.But it will also be fully in line with GAAP (GAAP) and how the United States hopes to do pledge it.
This just shows you that Ethereum treasury companies are critical infrastructure.It’s more than just a money management game.
In return, you can at least get pledge proceeds, but they can generate income in other ways.So, these Ethereum Treasury companies are not just alternatives to Ethereum ETFs.They play a very important role in the Ethereum ecosystem.
ETH treasury company bought so much ETH Why is the price of ETH still below $4,000
Bankless:Tom, there is one thing I don’t understand. Some ETH bulls are the same as me. When your Ethereum Treasury company buys $3 billion in ETH within a month, why is ETH still trading below $4,000?Where did your ETH come from?Why didn’t ETH price rise?
Tom Lee:I really don’t want to say too much, because as you can imagine, we are probably one of the biggest ETH buyers.I want to say that where the fair value of Ethereum is does not affect the short-term trend of ETH.ETH fell to $3,300 last week because some people have liquidation levels, or someone is doing pairing transactions, or people think Ethereum is a dead chain that is betting on another chain and trying to force liquidation.I think this is the latest development.
I thinkETH is experiencing BTC’s 2017 moment this year, Wall Street finally began to support ETH.BTC was $1,000 in early 2017 and began to rise sharply by August.We have definitely not seen Wall Street be so interested in ETH and the Ethereum network in four or five years.We are seeing Wall Street’s interest from every corner of the Ethereum ecosystem.
Who is buying Ethereum Treasury Company
Bankless:Compared with BTC treasury companies MicroStrategy, Hype treasury, Ethena treasury, and ETH treasury companies, what are the attractiveness of ETH treasury companies?Why choose to buy ETH Treasury Company?
Tom Lee:First of all, I really like Bitcoin.I think Bitcoin is the direction of the future.My research on Fundstrat shows that BTC can reach one million to one million and a half million dollars per coin.So, Bitcoin still has a huge story.
But in terms of the world’s financialization method, Bitcoin and Ethereum operate differently.For me, that’s a major difference becauseEthereum represents the world’s finance on blockchainThis is not Bitcoin’s goal, and the AI world is creating a digital native way to connect the real world and digital security.
That’s why some people want to own Ethereum Treasury companies.Ethereum Treasury companies are actually the only way for U.S. stock investors to gain exposure to Ethereum unless they buy ETH or ETH ETF directly.If you are an institution, and this is one of the biggest topics.Institutions cannot really buy Ethereum ETFs because this is not a fund parameter.so,Professional investors in the U.S. stock market see Ethereum Treasury companies as the only way to gain exposure to ETH macro trading.
That’s why Cathie Woods and Bill Miller made big investments in BitMine.They are institutional investors.Both of these people are cryptocurrency OG and they realize it is the best way to get macro exposure to Ethereum.
Where does mNAV premium come from
Bankless:In addition to the mNAV premium, Ethereum Treasury companies have some additional tools like the DeFi ecosystem that Ethereum Treasury companies can actually take advantage of.What strategies do you have to accumulate more ETH?
Tom Lee:You asked a good question and I have a lot of answers.Most of it I can’t share because any strategy we pursue is proprietary.However, investors should not oversimplify their thinking about treasury companies, as BitMine has become the world’s third largest crypto treasury company, behind Mara blockchain and MicroStrategy.So we have more cryptocurrencies than MetaPlanet.
Bankless:Tom, why is there an mNAV premium?I’ve heard some investors talking about this and their basic point is that the mNAV premium should collapse around 1 and in a bear market it could be below 1.But why does any cryptocurrency treasury company have an mNAV premium from the beginning?
Tom Lee:I want to start with the numbers.BitMine owns $3 billion in Ethereum.Suppose you are just an ETF, which is 1x NAV.But there is a 3% native return, with a market value of 20 times the 3% return, which adds NAV to 0.6.so,Due to the pledge income of ETH, mNAV has reached 1.6.
There are two other components: speed premium and liquidity premium.1. Speed premium.When BitMine started its Ethereum strategy on July 8, Ethereum with only $4 per share, and held $23 per share on July 27, an increase of $19 per share in about 20 days.Today is higher, we haven’t disclosed it yet.BitMine is 12 times that of MicroStrategy.So you have to give NAV a speed multiple.2. Liquidity premium.MicroStrategy has a daily transaction volume of about $3 billion, and BitMine is the second most liquid crypto treasury company because we trade $1.6 billion a day.This should also be worth a premium.So BitMine’s current mNAV is around 1.6.
Bankless:I’ll ask a question about speed, speed comes from liquidity.The question is where liquidity comes from?How to get more liquidity?
Tom Lee:This may be a synergy between the team.
First, I am the chairman of BitMine.Bitmine’s main investors come from private equity investment, and the lead is MOZAYYX, a very famous and very smart macro hedge fund.We are able to attract founders like Founders Fund, Stanley Druckenmiller, Bill Miller as holders.The largest blue-chip stocks in the traditional market and VC industry support BitMine.
Second, I have always been a long-term supporter of cryptocurrencies.As early as 2017, I strongly advocated that Wall Street cares about Bitcoin.Ethereum is now experiencing its 2017 moment.I think this is logical for those who know us.
I’m very supportive of what Lubin from SharpLink and Andrew Keys from Ether Machine are doing because we’re all doing the same.We are all working to stake Ethereum to make it a secure U.S. blockchain.We are all working towards the same goal.In the Wild West of DeFi, stability and innovation are everything.
Ethereum’s 2017 Moment
Bankless:You compared ETH to BTC in 2017.What is Bitcoin in 2017?What is the similarity between it and Ethereum now?
Tom Lee:I’d love to tell you the backstory of Fundstrat 2017.Fundstrat is a macro and theme company.We wrote about Big Story Arc (also known as Narrative Arc), which led us to focus on Bitcoin, and we did two different studies.
One is a millennial.The oldest millennial in 2017 is in her twenties.We realize that they will be a huge driver of the U.S. economy.The work we do with millennials is actually so compelling that we ended up working with Snapchat on several white papers discussing millennials will be a group you need to monetize.At the time, Snapchat tried to convince advertisers to do specific advertising for GenZ and millennials.
The second is that we noticed Bitcoin.Because when I was at JPMorgan it was priced at $100, and then suddenly turned into $1,000 in early 2017.So Fundstrat spent months trying to understand Bitcoin.I found it was driven by two very explainable things.1. Of the increase in Bitcoin from $100 to $1,000, 97% is driven by the number of wallets and the activity of each wallet.It’s basically the network value effect.We can simply say that in the next few years, if more people use Bitcoin, it will grow exponentially again.So we think it will hit $25,000 by 2022.But if it reaches 5 to 10% of the value of gold, it could even rise to $100,000.We start to really push this story, and Wall Street needs to understand Bitcoin because it is digital gold.We are really the first Wall Street company to push it to institutions.In 2017, 0% of institutions owned Bitcoin.In the past 8 years, the biggest narrative of Bitcoin has been digital gold, a store of value.
Our research at the time showed that gold was owned primarily by baby boomers.Millennials will own Bitcoin just like baby boomers own gold.This is a generational story, and it is also a wealth replacement story.
This is the backstory.I did a lot of webinars.But in reality Fundstrat lost institutional customers, and the number of paid customers on Fundstrat actually dropped because they thought we were totally crazy.They said: “How can you recommend something that is only used by drug dealers and dark web people? And you say it is a legal asset class”.So Fundstrat’s reputation was actually damaged.
Bitcoin is now $120,000, and BTC is up 120 times.For those customers who follow us and configure BTC at 1% to 2% we recommend, the value of BTC assets has now become almost 100% of their portfolio value.
This is also happening on Ethereum today, because Ethereum used to be a somewhat dormant chain.People want faster networks or newer ways to verify, butEthereum hasn’t been down for ten years.This is the most important thing for Wall Street.Wall Street has decided Ethereum is the chain they are going to build Wall Street, and it is even cheaper than it was five years ago.
Bankless:Does Wall Street understand that Ethereum is the backbone of many of the movements that are happening?Is this the reason behind ETH Treasury Company?Or a story made up in my mind?
Tom Lee:Wall Street will only understand it after it starts making money.Nvidia is a good example.That is an exponentially growing stock.But you know, sometimes Nvidia doesn’t move at all in a year, it’s just dead money, or Palantir has been dead money for many years, and then suddenly there is a step function.The market suddenly realized, “Oh, wait a minute. Not only did I understand, we also had to reprice.”
That’s what’s happening on Ethereum now, as on-chain activity has soared to an all-time high.The Ethereum community has been reactivated, and of course the price has rebounded, and more people are using Ethereum.And the benefits of the Genius Act for smart contract blockchain are obvious, and it also benefits Bitcoin, but Bitcoin will not support stablecoins.
Is it a bad thing that Ethereum hasn’t reached $15,000 today?I’ve seen something like this.We recommend Tesla and Nvidia, which have been a sure-making investment in Fundstrat Capital ETFs since 2019, and they have been researching portfolios for a long time.They do not track revenue.They are step-changing.I think so is Ethereum.I hope Ethereum will stay at this current price for five years, because that means we can buy it at a more attractive price.
If ETH is $17,000, then the cost of buying ETH is much higher for Ethereum Treasury companies.Of course, their stock prices will benefit.But for me, it is actually a good thing that it can be at the current price.
ETH price forecast: 100 times potential
Bankless:So just like Wall Street did not understand Bitcoin in 2017, Wall Street still did not understand the asset Ethereum in 2025.Maybe they are beginning to understand.When you first told Wall Street in 2017, Bitcoin was around $3,000, and now Ethereum is $3,000.You are predicting some very high prices.These prices are amazing in the traditional finance sector at least.Do you think ETH can do something similar to Bitcoin?How do you predict the price of Ethereum?
Tom Lee:I actually think Ethereum has more upside space.Because there was more suspicion at the beginning.Bitcoin is not necessarily something people short.They just don’t believe it.When we wrote about BTC in 2017, it seemed crazy.But from 2017 to now, it has not increased by 100 times in a long time.
Ethereum is like Bitcoin in 2017.Wall Street does not professionally believe Ethereum is even a chain that can survive because there is some fair criticism.For example, 1. Ethereum migrated to proof of stake; 2. There was a period of time when too much ETH was released, but this problem is being solved; 3. There is still whether Wall Street will establish it on Ethereum, whether they will stake ETH or even use ETH; 4. Thinking that Ethereum is an L2 story, and L2 does not have any benefits to L1.
This is all the concept that will be broken, and when it happens, the ETH price will be a step function.So I think the upside space of ETH is actually 100 times higher than Bitcoin.Bitcoin has risen 100 times, and Ethereum can also rise 100 times.Luben also has such an upward space in his heart, because Lubin and I have been communicating. We are really partners to promote the ETH treasury as a digital infrastructure.I think this could happen,Ethereum will surpass Bitcoin in terms of network value, with a very high probability.
If someone thinks that Bitcoin price can reach one million, imagine what this means for Ethereum?Because Ethereum is not only the financialization of Wall Street in blockchain, but also one of the focus of the United States on AI dominance.Ethereum plays a strategic role here.
If MicroStrategy has three times the upside space as Bitcoin, then in theory, the upside space of Ethereum treasury companies may be three times that of Ethereum itself.So, you won’t say that Ethereum Treasury companies are not a good investment category.If you look at what BitMine is doing differently, that’s why they should perform well.Because Ethereum itself is underestimated.
Bankless:Some of your predictions may be surprising, even in the cryptocurrency circle.Ethereum has risen 100 times to around $40 trillion, and you also say that Ethereum has the potential to surpass Bitcoin, which is not the mainstream view among the cryptocurrency native population, although many ETH supporters have long believed it.Where do you think the price of Ethereum will reach at the end of this year or at the end of this cycle?
Tom Lee:The price people should consider in the short term is whether ETH can reach $4,000.Because the story of Ethereum is better than in December 2024, and it was $4,000 at that time.We should at least rebound to the $4,000 level.
Today’s Ethereum story is better than a year ago, while ETH/BTC was 0.05 a year ago.At a ratio of 0.05, ETH should be $6,000.From now until the end of the year, many things will happen, including other Ethereum treasury companies starting to buy Ethereum and Bitcoin rising.So I think,By the end of 2025, it is not unreasonable to ETH to $7,000, or even $12,000 or $15,000.
The Fed began to turn dovishly in 2026, so central bank liquidity is rising, and ETH should continue to be built on these price levels by the end of 2025.
I don’t know if there is an encryption cycle, it should be.This is good for us because I personally think that an Ethereum Treasury company wants ETH prices to remain unchanged for the next five years and then rise sharply.But this may not happen.It may have a step function.
How to Value ETH
Bankless:Tom, how do you analyze the value and price of ETH?
Tom Lee:Crypto treasury companies are valued based on the asset base of their balance sheet.MicroStrategy’s valuation is actually based on its balance sheet, not its profitability.From 1990 to 2018, an entire generation of a person’s career, ExxonMobil was the top five companies in the S&P500 market capitalization throughout this period.There are internet waves and so on, but ExxonMobil is always the top five.It was never valued at income.It is always priced at proven reserves.So the cryptocurrency treasury company is the new ExxonMobil.
When I was working on Wall Street, I learned one thing: it takes a lot of PE to offset E.People spend too much time on E.But it’s always about PE.The price of ETH will not be based on the current transaction recorded in any week.It is actually an idea of what will be in five years.
Bankless:So how do you estimate the size of this market?Do you call Ethereum digital oil, and do you talk about its value ceiling in this way?
Tom Lee:The report “ETH is Digital Oil” was very good.I know that the Mosaics team also helped build two models for Ethereum, one is basically the proxy model for banking systems and the other is the payment proxy model.
But at the end of the day, if I learned something in the stock world, it is that I cannot be bound by a rigid framework.This is the mistake people make.I’m not against trying to build a framework.But for me, the ETH price of $3,600 is a bit ridiculously underestimated.
Crypto treasury companies are far from the bubble
Bankless:Tom, do you think these crypto treasury companies will be a little overheated at some point?Is it possible to enter the foam area?Will this over-inflate, the premium becomes reflexive, and then suddenly drop like an elevator and have a more systematic impact on cryptocurrency and the wider economy?Would you worry about this?
Tom Lee:A bubble is truly formed when everyone is optimistic about it.
The only way crypto treasury companies are in trouble is if they use leverage.Anyone who does a fancy tool debt structure, unless they are scarce, MicroStrategy can do a lot because they change the world.The same goes for MetaPlanet.Those that are not scarce will fall into problems.But most crypto treasury companies are very ordinary.What will happen then?Their prices are just falling.But I don’t think this will lead to a stock market crash.A stock market crash is usually a debt problem or an external shock.
We are still far from bubbles.In fact, the market is betting that they are already oversupply, so they only rise when Bitcoin is up.
